19 May 2004 18:18
Pro-Russian politician maps out path to stability in Chechnya - radio interview
There are no in-depth reasons for the Chechen-Russian conflict, its causes are artificial and external, Salambek
Maigov, the president of the Gromos (Groznyy-Moscow) cooperation foundation, has said in an interview with Ekho Moskvy
radio. According to Maigov, the Chechen people and Russia have the same interests in geopolitical, demographic and other
terms. Chechnya's future within Russia depends on whether the Kremlin opts to back Maigov's doctrine of
"self-help" or keeps to its current policy of strong-arm pressure, Maigov says. The following is an excerpt
from Salambek Maigov's interview broadcast by Ekho Moskvy radio on 18 May 2004; subheadings inserted
editorially:
[Presenter Marina Koroleva] Hello, Salambek.
[Salambek Maigov] Hello.
[Passage omitted: Pager number for listeners' questions]
[Presenter] What does the name of your foundation, Gromos, stand for?
[Maigov] Groznyy-Moscow.
[Presenter] Let's start with the latest reports from Groznyy. They are tragic again. Eleven federal troops have
been killed in a roadside blast on the Baku-Rostov highway. Efforts are under way to find out the circumstances. Such
reports are coming in every day, we should admit, but today the number of casualties is very large. Apropos, when did
you visit Chechnya last.
[Maigov] I returned from Chechnya last Friday [14 May], where I took part in President Akhmat Kadyrov's funeral,
met a number of political figures, religious representatives and ordinary people. You rightly said that the situation in
Chechnya is rather complicated. In my view, the process of finding a settlement involves two aspects: on one hand, the
unfinished nature of hostilities and, on the other hand, the effectiveness of the social and economic recovery of the
Chechen Republic. In my view, these processes are interdependent and determine the Chechen Republic's overall
situation.
Chechen interests and Russia
[Presenter] Salambek, you have used a very cautious expression: the unfinished nature of hostilities. Recalling the
impressions of President Putin who recently flew over Chechnya saying that the picture was frightful. To be honest, we
hadn't heard such things from our top leadership before. We had been told that the war was over there. What did you
mean by unfinished hostilities? Did you mean war or a peace with elements of hostilities, yet still a peace? What is
there now?
[Maigov] I think we shouldn't say that armed resistance has been suppressed and wiped out. More than that, a lot
of young Chechens are participants in clandestine organizations. There are many sympathisers. Their activity is based on
protests against the arbitrariness of power-wielding structures and, on the other hand, on the total lack of hope for a
normal peaceful life with development or prospects for young people. In this context, unfortunately, Kadyrov's
administration did not do well enough. It was impossible to provide jobs for people. An ambitious young man with no
prospects in a peaceful life would come to support or fill the ranks of the Chechen resistance, which is in no event
confined to existing combat detachments somewhere up in the mountains. It is a ramified network.
[Presenter] Do you think those resistance groups are controlled from one centre or several centres or there are tens
of such centres and they are all isolated?
[Maigov] I find it difficult to judge. I can only say there's certain coordination among resistance groups. I
will repeat again that young people go into the resistance mainly in protest against strong-arm actions by
power-wielding structures.
[Presenter] Chechen or federal power-wielding structures?
[Maigov] Both Chechen and federal ones. Now that we expect the Kremlin to take some steps and look forward to the
outcome of the forthcoming elections, I am sure that we should use this situation to implement a new approach and a new
understanding of the problem. We should understand that the true interests of the Chechen people do not contradict those
of Russia.
It's another matter that such understanding should be accepted by the present Chechen political elite and
materialized in the future elections of the new administration. On the other hand, the Kremlin should also become aware
that it's impossible to settle this crisis by threats or strong-arm methods. Both Chechnya and the federal centre
should become aware that the war actually is going on for nothing. There are no in-depth reasons. The reasons are
artificial. The interests of the Chechen people and those of Russia in terms of geopolitics, demographic factors and a
lot of other determinant parameters are generally the same.
[Presenter] Maybe you notice of yourself saying the word war, that war is going on. Nonetheless, Chechnya is going to
have elections following the death of the Chechen leader Akhmat Kadyrov. We will discuss ways to settle the current
situation after a commercial break.
Chechen patriotism
[Presenter] Here is a question for you from our listener Aleksey Nikolayevich. [Warlord Shamil] Basayev has said that
he was behind Kadyrov's liquidation. Indeed, Chechen rebel web sites carry a statement by Basayev saying that he
initiated the explosion in Groznyy and threatening new blasts in Moscow. When will he be caught, Aleksey Nikolayevich
asks.
[Maigov] This question is not addressed to the right person. The only thing I can say is that Chechen people are
awaiting real patriots today to uphold their interests, defend and protect their rights.
[Presenter] Basayev and [Chechen rebel leader] Aslan Maskhadov also think they are patriots, don't they?
[Maigov] I am sure that truly patriotic positions imply that the Russian people and the Chechen people have common
interests and we should have a conscious attitude to the need for coexistence. I want to say that the Kremlin should not
be afraid that the Chechen people will support patriotic-minded forces. Yet here I want to repeat that I'm
convinced that artificial causes lie beneath the confrontation between Chechnya and Russia.
In this context, I said and keep saying that the future of the Chechen ethnic group is not based on confrontation
with Russia. The issue of status is largely farfetched because the times of quasi-states are past and gone in the
present-day world. Smaller peoples will in any event be under the umbrella of one or another political or geopolitical
centre.
In the case of Russia, it is obvious that we have common geopolitical and geo-economic interests. Speaking in
demographic terms, the most proactive and energetic part of Chechens are doing business in Russia. On the other hand, I
am sure that rank-and-file fighters of the Chechen resistance are also one of the best representatives of Chechens.
It's another thing that they've taken the wrong path. I said this earlier and I am sure that dialogue in the
broad meaning of the word should take place at last between Chechens and Russia on the question of what we are fighting
for and what out interests are.
Political future for all
[Presenter] Salambek, do you think that Aslan Maskhadov can and should take part in this dialogue? Our long-standing
listeners remember your previous interviews. One of them is asking why you stopped being Maskhadov's permanent
representative. This is an old story but, nevertheless, did your convictions change?
[Maigov] No my convictions didn't change in general. They didn't change in that there are no systemic
prerequisites for confrontation. As regards giving up the post of Aslan Maskhadov's permanent representative, my
decision was based on reasons of principle, above all Maskhadov's initiative that international peacekeeping forces
should be brought to Chechnya. In the final account, this anti-Russian position is utopian and unrealistic. In this
respect, I think we should act in the context of existing realities.
[Presenter] Well, speaking about Maskhadov, can he be revived as a real political figure? Can he re-emerge on the
political scene?
[Maigov] I am sure that no-one should be left out of the social and political processes leading to stabilization and
a positive peaceful coexistence in the context of a single Russian state. It's a different point whether one person
or another would wish to be involved. There should be no bars.
In my view, the point is that the Chechen people awaits patriots to effectively defend their interests but, on the
other hand, the Chechen people are aware that their interests are not in confrontation with Russia. In this connection
it's very important what kind of opinions are going to prevail in the Kremlin. I do hope that both President Putin
and Russia's political establishment become aware and recognize the loyalty of the Chechen people, that they will
not be afraid of people who are ready to act effectively in their own republic for common interests, rather than for
their personal careers or to please some high official in Russia.
Self-help doctrine for Chechnya
[Presenter] If I may ask a straightforward question, are you personally prepared to stand for president of Chechnya
in the upcoming elections next autumn?
[Maigov] It depends on many circumstances but the main factor for me is that my vision is understood by the Kremlin.
As for support for my views in Chechnya, it is beyond doubt. I know this from my numerous trips of Chechnya. The point
is what the Kremlin wants. If it opts for a policy of intimidation, combing operations and strong-arm suppression, the
person needed to implement such a policy will be a tame one capable of fulfilling any instructions but having no
initiative of his own. Social and economic recovery was again hampered by everyone hanging on the centre's words.
We need a doctrine of self-help with the republic's leadership coming up with initiatives, projects which would
also help overcome corruption and bring forth the best economic and political forces to recover the economy and overcome
destruction.
[Presenter] Have you had concrete negotiations with the Kremlin administration of late concerning your nomination for
Chechen president?
[Passage omitted: repeat]
[Maigov] I think the near future will show the policy to be pursued by the Kremlin. I very much hope that a position
of goodwill will prevail, a position to involve all political forces. It is not by accident that President Putin said
that only Chechens themselves can establish order in Chechnya. It is another matter that such power should be born in
Chechnya and supported by the Chechen people. Should it consist of Kremlin appointees who normally have no support in
the Chechen society, any drastic stabilization would be out of the question.
Kadyrov clan and Chechen elite
[Presenter] Speaking about the Kremlin's appointees, this term can hardly be applied to Akhmat Kadyrov's
son Ramzan Kadyrov. Nonetheless, he has been much spoken about of late, in Chechnya and elsewhere [as a presidential
hopeful]. Even the idea of changing the constitution is being discussed to make him eligible before he turns 30. What do
you think about the possibility of nominating Ramzan Kadyrov for Chechen president? Does he have a chance?
[Maigov] I think we have no monarchy in Chechnya or in Russia as a whole. We live in a democratic society. If the
federal centre has declared a constitutional process, we should observe the letter of the law. On the other hand, the
fact that the political elite is represented by people from one teyp [Chechen clan] and today's contenders for the
presidential post also belong to that teyp is not taken positively in Chechnya.
Akhmat Kadyrov's problem was also that the political elite did not support him and many contenders for supreme
power were in opposition or out of this process. The Chechen people will accept a power capable of consolidating this
elite, to share power in the broad meaning of the word with all groups. There are several of them, which is a well known
fact. It is only a union, a consolidation of Chechen society based on the awareness that we need a coexistence based on
mutual respect with Russia that will enable us to get out of this difficult conflict. Naturally enough, all political
forces in Chechnya should be involved in the process of finding a settlement, stabilization and consolidation of Chechen
society, including those outlawed by the Russian legal system.
[Passage omitted: More in this vein]
[Presenter] Do you see a figure capable of uniting and consolidating all forces?
[Maigov] Even if there were such a person, he could do nothing. A lot depends on his ideology and action programme
and a lot will depend on the federal centre's understanding of that ideology and programme. I have no doubt
whatsoever that the Chechen people will support the ideology and action programme that I outlined above.
[Presenter] Thank you. [passage omitted]
[Ekho Moskvy radio] |
RUSSIA IN FACTS
