13 October 2003 22:07
Moldovan leader interviewed on Dniester region, ties with Romania, Ukraine
Moldovan President Vladimir Voronin has reiterated his support for turning Moldova into a federation as a solution to
the problem of the breakaway Dniester region, saying that federation is nothing but a question of distributing power
between the centre and the regions. Speaking in an interview recorded for TV, Voronin said he opposed the involvement of
an international peacekeeping force in the Dniester region until all Russian troops and weapons are withdrawn. He
reconfirmed Moldova's European integration bid, but said that Moldova does not plan to quit the CIS yet. He blamed
Bucharest for the frosty Moldovan-Romanian relations. Meanwhile, he described relations with Ukraine as excellent.
Voronin denied that Moldova is facing a serious economic crisis and said that the authorities are doing their best to
fight corruption. The following is the text of a recorded 27-minute interview with Voronin broadcast by the independent
ProTV Chisinau channel on 12 October; subheadings inserted editorially:
[Correspondent] Good evening, mister president. Did you think you could become president in 1994, when the Communist
Party was legalized again?
Communist majority in parliament deserved
[Voronin] No, I didn't. In fact no party members thought about this even over the last few years, until it
happened [the Communists overwhelmingly won the 2001 parliamentary elections], although all the activities we have
carried out over the past 10 years led to this, because any party is striving for power in the country. We have been
consistent over all these years in our desire to take over the power. We have started with the local election and
gradually [gained more mandates in] the parliamentary election. At first we gained few seats.
[Correspondent] The second time you captured more.
[Voronin] In 2001, we won the constitutional majority [71 out of 101 seats].
[Correspondent] Did the [parliamentary] majority scare you?
[Voronin] In fact, there were some moments. They exist even today. These are moments of care and responsibility which
are granted by people through these mandates and we should honour the trust of people. This was one of the concerns. As
to career goals, maybe some of us thought about a greater career deep inside their hearts, but for me, for example, this
was not the most important.
[Correspondent] Do you think the presidency has changed you?
[Voronin] Even if you do not want it, even if you are old, the position obliges you and brings you up to certain
standards. The responsibility in this position is very great and this responsibility obliges you to do something that
you did not do previously, to behave in a way that you would have never behaved if you were not president. Thus, there
is a difference between what was before the presidency and what is today.
[Correspondent] You are the most popular politician in Moldova. Thanks to what?
[Voronin] I think that this is explained by the fact that one must always tell people the truth, be honest with
people and if you say something, if you promise something to people, to a person or to a group, it doesn't matter,
you must think and do the best to keep the promise.
No alternative to federalization
[Correspondent] The federalization project proposed by the OSCE is not supported by most Moldovans. At least this is
what a poll carried out by IMAS [Institute for Market Analysis and Research] in April-May shows. Aren't you scared
that if the project is implemented, you may lose popularity? The more so as the reunification of the country would bring
with it about 300,000 voters from the Dniester region who could vote against you.
[Voronin] There are reasons to believe that we could not be supported, but I have always asked myself during all
these years and I ask our electorate and the citizens of our country through television: what is the alternative? For
10-12 years, since this conflict took place in 1992, we have been looking for solutions and possibilities to reintegrate
the country. How many variants, plans and projects have been proposed? Today I ask myself again: what is the solution?
One should not be scared by the word federalization.
[Correspondent] What does federalization mean from your point of view?
[Voronin] From the constitutional and legal point of view, this does not mean anything more than redistribution of
power, what the prerogatives and functions of the central authorities are and what we give to the autonomies. This is
what the word [spelling out] fe-de-ra-li-za-tion means, but not splitting the country or, God forbid, something else.
The country is now divided and all our efforts are aimed at integrating it. Simply, there is no other option.
Russian arms withdrawal is difficult
[Correspondent] Russia is failing to withdraw its armament from the Dniester region by the end of 2003. You have said
in Strasbourg that in fact Moscow had assumed some commitments towards the OSCE, not towards Moldova, although the
troops are on our territory and Moldova is also a member of the OSCE. Why don't we take a tougher stance in
relations with Russia regarding the arms withdrawal?
[Voronin] How can it be tougher? There is the Istanbul document [according to which Russia was supposed to withdraw
its weapons and troops from Moldova by the end of 2002; the deadline was extended until December 2003 at the OSCE summit
in Porto], the agreement and the commitment of Russia towards these countries, towards the whole European community and
the USA. How can this responsibility be raised higher than it is now? I do not think it is possible. But it is not
correct to say that we do not raise these issues during our meetings with Russian officials. These issues are always
discussed at all meetings, starting with President Vladimir Putin and ending with all Russian state officials.
There is another question, you see, the position of the Dniester leadership which imposes condition after condition.
It is not as simple as it could seem. There are many aspects which we cannot tell TV viewers but the withdrawal details
are very complicated. And here the Moldovan saying "more haste, less speed" is appropriate. We must hurry, but
only to implement the decisions taken at the summit, but not to do things which everyone will later regret. This is the
largest arms stockpile in Europe. Everything which is related to arms withdrawal from there is very dangerous. We must
do this but in the agreed order and by the set deadline.
Yes, there is a delay, but the process must be completed. The final part is the most important. Whether a month or
six months later, but we must complete the withdrawal.
International peacekeepers unnecessary
[Correspondent] You have said that for the time being we do not need a multinational peacekeeping force in the
Dniester region, representing either the OSCE or the European Union, because there is nothing for it to guarantee.
Don't you think that if these forces came, then the Dniester authorities would be more cooperative during
negotiations?
[Voronin] Not at all. On the contrary, I think this would make the situation more tense because the position of the
Dniester side on these forces is very well known. As Russian forces still have not withdrawn, there cannot be any talk
about involvement of other forces. Russian forces can be withdrawn only after all the equipment is pulled out. We have a
reference point from which we are moving. The second point is the elaboration of the constitution, a constitutional
referendum and joint elections with the Dniester region in the Moldovan parliament. After this of course, a peacekeeping
force is needed to act as a guarantor. And it is the case that these forces be multinational. Then there will be common
and European interest from all the sides, the interest that Moldova meets all its commitments.
[Correspondent] But there are rumours that we do not accept these forces because Russia is against it.
[Voronin] There are many ideas, I cannot comment on all the ideas and rumours. It is not the case. Simply, I explain
the mechanism that would be normal, when we need other forces.
Joining Russia-Belarus union difficult
[Correspondent] Two of the Communists' electoral promises were Moldova's accession to the Russia-Belarus
Union and making Russian a second official language. Will these two promises be fulfilled?
[Voronin] It is difficult to say this today. First of all, there is still time. Second, if we speak about the first
promise - joining the Russia-Belarus Union - after the last [CIS] summit in Yalta, after a group of four countries
[Russia, Ukraine, Belarus and Kazakhstan] set up [the single economic space], it is difficult to speak about prospects.
But even without this, you have seen how difficult the integration of Russian and Belarusian economies is. Their
relations are very complicated. There are even aspects which could seem very-very simple to ordinary people but which
have not been solved for years. Therefore, this promise remains. Moreover, our pre-electoral campaign said that we are
studying these opportunities and prospects, but we did not undertake serious commitments that we will decide on this
issue.
Regarding the Russian language, it is clear that Russian is a language of communication whether we want it or not.
With what language shall we replace it? How shall we talk to Gagauzians and Bulgarians? There are generations which are
not learning any language any more. They have a certain age and abilities. Therefore, one should not hurry with these
issues. Russian should keep its place in the country and we should study this great language in schools and institutions
and take care that it be preserved in our country.
Moldova not to quit CIS
[Correspondent] The summit in Yalta and the statement that you made there left the impression that Moldova is
quitting the CIS. You said later that the media misinterpreted your statement. But you were misinterpreted by the
Moldovan, Russian and Ukrainian media. What did you say there in fact?
[Voronin] It often happens that people or the media representing these people understand what they want to
understand. This is our fault [smiles]. In fact it happened that the community of the four countries was created without
prior consultations with other CIS member-countries. This was the first thing. The second thing is very interesting for
us. It has many prospects as well as many problems. We have remained alone on this European, Western side because -
[Correspondent] Isolated.
[Voronin] I would not say isolated, such words should not be used. Because after us there is Ukraine, then Belarus,
the Russian Federation and Kazakhstan. But we remain here. For us, this is an opportunity to show EU countries and the
whole of Europe that [changes tack] where should we go now? We remained with Europe. We remained in Europe. Therefore,
our initiative and energy which is being shown during the elaboration of documents, decisions and programmes on EU
accession should obviously increase much more. This is what I said in that statement. If these four countries have
lowered the level of CIS activities so much, and this is reality, because in total they cover 80 per cent of all the CIS
potential and there is nothing else to say here. In this case, we have nothing to do but to move towards Europe more
actively and urgently, from all points of view. This is what I said, but this statement in no case refers to the
possibility of our quitting the CIS tomorrow. We will see what will happen there next, how the balance of attitudes,
forces and interests will be within the CIS. You know and TV viewers also know that in the first days after the 2001
elections I said that Moldova should be where its national interests lie. Moldova is a small country and we cannot
influence the big geopolitics of political, economic and social globalization. But as regards our interest, we must
seize the moment.
Romania responsible for frosty relations
[Correspondent] Your party has achieved some spectacular things. It has solved delicate problems, such as the
registration of the [pro-Romanian Orthodox] Bessarabian Metropolitan Church, recognition of double citizenship, problems
which were avoided by the previous authorities. I would like to ask you now if it wouldn't be easier to recognize
that the name of the official language is Romanian and to solve this problem once and for all?
[Voronin] First of all, it is not the party but the legislature which decides such issues. It is clear that we have
the majority there, but this does not mean the party decides these problems. Regarding the language, we cannot do this
and we will never do this. We will never do it. Our language is and will be Moldovan. And I explained to our Romanian
colleagues in Strasbourg and I will always explain. The name of the country, nation or language is an internal issue of
every country. Yes, the language can be similar, we can understand each other, speak normally without interpreters, but
the name of the language is that given by the people.
[Correspondent] Who is to blame for the worsening of relations with Romania?
[Voronin] Romania.
[Correspondent] Why?
[Voronin] The Romanian side.
[Correspondent] Why?
[Voronin] The first thing is the notion, which still exists in Romania, of two Romanian states. I cannot understand
how this combines with the accession to the European Union and other European structures that Romania is part of. Then,
the ideology with which they have bombarded us over the last 12 years since [Moldova] proclaimed independence. All of us
have their own household, their family, their country and their nation. Each of us should be respectable and honour
their commitments towards their own country, and nobody, neither from the West nor from the East, should get involved
into the interests of our country. This is the policy which we should promote. We say yes to interests, yes to
cooperation, yes to economic relations, yes to political relations, yes to relations between citizens, yes to diplomatic
relations, yes to relations from all points of view, to the broadest relations, but only without interference into our
internal affairs.
How we are developing, what we are doing, what maize porridge [Moldovan and Romanian national food] we are cooking -
this is our internal problem, and nobody should poke their nose into our problems. Relations will improve as soon as
they [Romania] finish with this. We do not have any kind of phobia towards Romania, towards Romanians, towards anyone
else from any other country. There is no kind of phobia. We simply have our destiny. This is the fate of young and
independent states. You receive advice from all sides, like two people who have just married. They receive advice the
whole day from the groom's family, the mother-in-law and so on. Everyone gives advice. And if the young couple
listens to everyone then what happens in such a family? For 12 years everyone has been trying to advise us. Whom shall
we join? With whom shall we unite? What shall we do? What language shall we speak? We should put an end to this.
[Correspondent] But apart from Romania, who else is advising us?
[Voronin] Who is advising us? Someone is advising. Some are doing this more intelligently, other are doing this more
directly but there is much advice.
[Correspondent] We should recognize that relations with Ukraine are no better.
Relations with Ukraine excellent
[Voronin] No, not at all. Relations with Ukraine are very good, excellent. They are excellent. This is the position
of media and of someone else, but I do not agree. Relations with Ukraine are very good.
[Correspondent] We have many problems to resolve however.
[Voronin] What does it mean that relations are good? This means that there are more opportunities to resolve
problems. When the border was closed, when everything was interrupted, some were doing what they wanted, others were
doing the same and we did not need such developed relations. But when relations are good, one wants them to be better.
We are waiting for a state visit by President [Leonid] Kuchma [to Chisinau in November]. We will find more domains in
which we can cooperate with Ukraine. And I think that at last we will sign a free trade agreement with him in order to
eliminate all taxes and excises which are still existing today.
[Correspondent] And obtain our property on the Ukrainian territory.
[Voronin] We are already working on this. Even in Yalta I submitted a special letter to Kuchma. But there are some
problems. For example, the Ukrainian committee for state property which is dealing with privatization is a body of
parliament. But the president does not have control over the Ukrainian parliament. Therefore, his possibilities to help
us urge the privatization of our assets in Ukraine are limited.
Moldova is not facing a financial crisis
[Correspondent] Communist Deputy Victor Ciobanu has recently said in parliament that Moldova is facing a crisis
similar to the Russian financial crisis in 1998. I do not know whether this is true or not, but I would like to ask you
to tell us this. I would also like to ask you to tell us whether Moldova can go through this crisis without the support
of international financial organizations.
[Voronin] Indeed, the situation is very difficult, but it is under control and the position of our [national
currency] leu proves this. The task which is now in front of us has not been set by myself, as many say, but by life
itself. Life dictates. We must learn to live from our own revenues, from our own work. What does it mean that over the
last seven to eight years, one third of the state budget revenue, in some years up to 40 per cent, was planned to be
covered from international loans, from the IMF, World Bank loans? What does this mean? How can you live and work, if you
plan in advance that you will not earn your revenue from your work or sweat of your brow, but you will receive it from
loans. Everyone was looking for loans and we gathered enormous sums and we now have to pay interest. But the 2004 state
budget stipulates for the first time ever that we will live from our own resources, from what we earn. We will spend as
much as we have. If this does not work, then as Moldovans say, I wish you may get it. Enough spending. Everyone wants
money. Not all the budget articles have reached parliament yet, but there are already demands to increase expenditures
for certain areas for a certain amount. No, my dears. If we have funds, we will increase, but if not then we will try to
live according to our means. There is no other possibility. We have not taken any loans over these three years since we
came to power.
[Correspondent] But relations with the IMF and the World Bank do not mean only foreign money. They mean the image of
our country first of all, then foreign investments. Shall we restore relations in this case?
Cooperation with international financial organizations
[Voronin] Yes, yes. We do not think that relations should be broken. I spoke about loans and that we should put an
end to this practice. But relations with them should be developed. Moreover, through mechanisms that these institutions
propose, further reforms are being carried out in the economy and in different areas of development of our country.
These reforms are very important for us because under market economy conditions their implementation means adapting our
national economy to European standards.
[Correspondent] Corruption is the main cause of poverty in Moldova. How are we fighting corruption given the fact
that corruption is a serious obstacle on the path to European integration?
Fighting corruption
[Voronin] Do you think that we will have about 1bn lei [73.8m dollars] above the [revenue] figure planned in the
national budget due to economic growth? No. Only 30 per cent of this increase in budgetary revenues is due to economic
growth. The rest is due to tougher control which means that corruption is decreasing. This is first. Second. I do not
agree with talks about corruption, corruption, corruption and that measures are not being taken about it. What does it
mean that measures are not taken? If there are no major cases, convicted clans or people, does this mean that we are not
fighting corruption? But one should try to put an end to corruption in our courts. On the one hand those [convicted] are
corrupt, and those who judge them are also corrupt. They are organizing auctions among themselves. Then explain me what
these frequent dismissals of important people mean? We will not do what the Chinese were doing. We will not condemn and
so on.
[Correspondent] Do you refer to ministers? [More than half of government ministers have been dismissed since the
Communists came to power.]
[Voronin] I refer to everyone, not only to ministers, but to the whole axis of state power which is checked and
controlled. Yes, it is clear that there is corruption. And here there are many aspects, including social aspects. I do
not justify anyone, but the situation with public employees is very difficult. Their salaries are below the level of
their functions and below the level of their responsibility. We will have these kind of problems with corruption as long
they come to the office with lunches in their bags.
[Correspondent] What is the most difficult mission that you have to fulfil?
[Voronin] None of them is easy. All are complicated and difficult because the future of the country is at the basis
of our daily activities, it is the sense of these activities and the goal that we should see clearly. And if I gather
all these problems together, then I would say that the most difficult mission is to do my best to consolidate and
develop Moldovan statehood. This is the most difficult, the most complicated but also the most important function and
mission of a president.
[Correspondent] Mister president, thank you very much indeed for accepting our invitation.
[ProTV] |
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